1/24/15

From Ed Healy.... Forgiveness of sin in Old & New Testament!



Forgiveness of sin
in Old & New Testament!
The following are some thoughts I had while answering a Bible Question I received in an email recently.

Subject: Forgiveness of sins in the Old Testament

Question: Recently, there was a heated discussion in our congregation between two long time preachers over forgiveness of sin in the Old Testament. One of them held to the "sins being rolled forward" view and the other saying that sins were forgiven at that time. I am currently studying the matter and would appreciate any material that you would be willing to share with me.

Thanks a lot!!!!
Bible Student

Dear Bible Student,

I scanned through some of the material you sent regarding your question and it appears that you have a very good collection of views.

I am sure that there are many thoughts and arguments supporting the different views.

Let me start by saying this should not become a point of fellowship in the church.
If that ends up being the case then I think that those maintaining their different views should really consider the scriptures with a new and clear mind.

All scripture should be approached with an open mind and pure heart.
Context! Context! Context!
Is the first item of consideration.

Now what are my thoughts?
Below I will outline my thinking as best I can to keep it simple.
I am a simple person and try not to think too deeply these days. ;-)

1. God is eternal.

2. Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are eternal and are 100% God as is the Father.

3. God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit created time and all that it includes (Gen 1:1ff).

4. Man was created in time.

5. Created man is limited in time.

6. Since the fall of man his days have been numbered.

7. God has an Eternal Purpose and Plan to redeem man from the consequence of the fall.

8. God has been and continues to work out His plan of redemption in time for each generation.

9. This working will continue until Jesus comes again and there is the resurrection.
(1 Cor.15, 1Thes.4:13f)

10. ALL forgiveness of sins is based upon the “death burial and resurrection” (DBR) of Jesus in the fullness of time
(Gal.4:4)

11. From the beginning of time God has required faithfulness.

12 All of mankind is and has been saves by Grace through Faith.

13. Mankind can only view time and has a hard time understanding eternity.
We try to describe it in time terms but are limited.

14. In time all are saved by Grace through Faith whether before or after the DBR of Jesus Christ.

15. Jesus was and is eternal and became flesh in time to redeem mankind.

16. All was/is in the eternal knowledge of God who knew and worked it out in time.

17. In eternity God saw and knew all of time for He created time, beginning to end.

18. So man before the Cross had faith and it was commended as righteous.
(Heb.11)

19. Man after the Cross has faith and it is commended as righteous.
(Rom.4-5)

20. Mankind thinks in linear terms limited by time.
Therefore to understand we use the terms before and after the Cross, the event in History/Time (Gal.4:4)

Man tries to put the event of the (DBR) in human terms limited to time and thus we say, rolled forward or back.

21. God is not limited to time so in the mind of the eternal God Sins are forgiven in Eternity based upon faith.

22. Faith, Hope and Love are great motives/attributes but only Love is eternal for God is Love.
(1Cor.13:1-13)

23. When time is no more Faith and Hope will be realized and only the Love of God will be.

Conclusion:

1. Sins are forgiven based upon the (DBR) of Jesus Christ.
The (DBR) is shared through the preaching of the Gospel, the Good News.
(Rom.1:8-17, Eph.1:2-2:22) (Gal.3:1-4:7)

2. Is the forgiveness of sins before the Cross "rolled forward" or "rolled back" after the Cross?
No! Sins are forgiven in eternity based upon God's Grace through our faith provided in the redemption God provides in the (DBR) of Jesus Christ.

3. Those back to Adam forward are found righteous based upon God's Righteousness provided though Jesus Christ.

4. Nothing rolled back and nothing rolled forward. All faith is based upon the eternal sacrifice of Jesus Christ. (Acts 2:22f)

5. Biblically based faith is a saving faith that requires obedience.
(John 3:36, Rom.1:1-7, 8-17, 16:25-27, 2Thes.1:3-12) There are many more scriptures.

6. Final thought in Hebrews chapters 8-10.
I think the KEY word to consider is ETERNAL.

All the offerings of the OT were merely a shadow of the substance which was Christ our ETERNAL sacrifice.

All was by Gods plan in eternity and carried out in time.

The "Shadow" was a focus on the flesh/material (time bound) the "Substance"
is the Spiritual/Eternal not bound by or limited in time.

Understanding the eternal nature of God is the main point.

One must see it clearly, the eternal, spiritual nature of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to understand the full application of the scriptures both OT and NT.

I think those who fail to see the full nature of God tend to have conflict in the application of many scriptures to life. Thus they limit God and His eternal power to forgive in time and eternity.

Thoughts by EEHealy

An Imperialistic Church? by Brad Bromling, D.Min.

http://apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=11&article=390

An Imperialistic Church?

by Brad Bromling, D.Min.

The ecumenical goal of uniting humanity sounds honorable. Surely all who profess faith in Jesus Christ want to see the unity for which He prayed realized on Earth (see John 17). So, how is that unity attained? Not upon a common faith in Christ, according to Letty Russell, a professor of theology at Yale. She has written:
When we universalize the Christian story of God in Jesus Christ as the only message of salvation for all people, we deny the power of God to work through all the poor and through all creation. To universalize our very concrete and particular faith is a form of imperialism over people of other faiths and ideologies (1993, p. 130).
To Russell, the Christian message is fine for Christians, but it is not the only way to approach God (1993, p. 129). This view is not uncommon. Society says: “Don’t judge!” And we cringe. We remember that it was our Master who spoke those words; so we feel ashamed when we are accused of judging. However, before we allow ourselves to be shamed into abandoning our faith in the Christian system, let us do some serious reflection.
Jesus taught that trees are known by their fruit, and that “righteous judgment” is a Christian responsibility (Matthew 7:15-20; John 7:24). He also said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). Lines must be drawn. Judgments must be made. Is Christianity, then, imperialism? In a sense it is. As envoys of King Jesus, Christians are calling people out of “the power of darkness” into the “kingdom” of God’s Son (Colossians 1:13). Unity attained by alliances that overlook the kingdom is spiritual treason.

REFERENCES

Russell, Letty M. (1993), The Church in the Round (Louisville, KY: Westminster/John Knox Press).

From Mark Copeland... Jesus Predicts Peter's Denial (Mark 14:27-31)


                          "THE GOSPEL OF MARK"

                Jesus Predicts Peter's Denial (14:27-31)

INTRODUCTION

1. How well do we know ourselves...?
   a. Confident that our faith is strong?
   b. Certain that we would never deny our Lord?

2. In our text (Mk 14:27-31) we find examples of over-confidence...
   a. Not just in Peter who denied the Lord
   b. But in all the apostles who stumbled and fled

[Let’s begin with a reading of our text, with the Lord and His disciples
having just completed the Last Supper and on their way to the Mount of
Olives...]

I. NARRATIVE

   A. DESERTION AND REUNION FORETOLD...
      1. Jesus speaks of desertion by His disciples - Mk 14:27
      2. As foretold by Zechariah - cf. Zec 13:7
      3. But also of His resurrection and reunion in Galilee - Mk 14:28;
         cf. Mk 16:7

   B. PETER’S DENIAL FORETOLD...
      1. Peter asserts that even if all others stumble, not him! - Mk 14:29
      2. Jesus tells Peter that he will deny Him three times that night
         - Mk 14:30
      3. Peter angrily disagrees, even if it means death - Mk 14:31
      4. The rest of the disciples all say the same thing - Mk 14:31

[Jesus’ prediction soon came true (Mk 14:50,66-72).  What would we have
done if we were one of Jesus’ disciples at that time?  Before answering
too quickly, consider a few lessons from the text...]

II. APPLICATION

   A. THE LIMITS OF SELF-KNOWLEDGE...
      1. How well do we really know ourselves?
         a. The disciples seem so certain in their faithfulness
         b. Yet they all stumbled and Peter denied the Lord, just as He
            said
         c. Like Hazael, they really did not know their true selves - cf. 2Ki 8:12-13
         d. Indeed, can any of us know our true selves? - cf. Jer 17:9
      2. Then what can we do?
         a. Acknowledge that only God truly knows us - cf. Jer 17:10; Ps 139:1-16; He 4:13
         b. Look to the Word of God to see ourselves as we really are
            - He 4:12
         c. Look to God in prayer for help - Ps 19:12; 139:23-24; e.g.,
            2Th 3:5

   B. BEWARE OF COMFORT MISSED BY SELFISHNESS...
      1. Notice how the disciples ignored Jesus’ words of comfort
         a. He spoke plainly of His resurrection - Mk 14:28
         b. Yet they focused on defending themselves - Mk 14:29-31
      2. Might we be guilty of the same?
         a. We have been given many comforting words - e.g., Ro 8:31-39
         b. We can enjoy comfort from both God and one another - cf. 2Co 1:3-4
         c. But we can overlook such comfort when focused on selfish
            concerns!

   C. BE CAREFUL OF PROUD ASSERTIONS...
      1. Notice the self-confidence of the disciples
         a. Peter angrily stating that he would die before denying the
            Lord - Mk 14:29-31
         b. The rest of the disciples said likewise - Mk 14:31
      2. Might we be guilty of the same?
         a. Quick to boast of our faithfulness to the Lord or His
            church?
         b. Remember the wisdom of Solomon about pride and a haughty
            spirit - Pr 16:18

CONCLUSION

1. As disciples of Jesus Christ, let us learn...
   a. From His first disciples
   b. From those who were even His apostles

2. What can we learn...?
   a. The limits of self-knowledge
   b. The danger of missing comfort due to selfishness
   c. The need to be careful of proud assertions

We can also learn of our Lord’s grace and mercy, for He was quick to
forgive those who denied Him and fled away.  So He will do for us when
we stumble, if we are willing to repent and return to Him...!

Executable Outlines, Copyright © Mark A. Copeland, 2011

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Gary.... Now, I've seen it all!!!


This is a first for me; I mean, actually seeing a pocket watch vending machine- In Germany, no less!!!  Forgot your pocket watch- just buy one from the automat and be on your way. I wish things could be that easy because today the choices are quite limited. You can easily purchase some junky watch from Asia, Or, if you wish, buy a way over-priced swiss pocket watch, or lastly, buy a quality vintage 1900's watch that is very old and is beat up. Aren't you glad religion isn't like that!!! When you need help, God is always there and we have an advocate before HIM in Jesus- Whenever we need HIM.

Hebrews, Chapter 4
 16 Let us therefore draw near with boldness to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace for help in time of need. 

You have to put a coin in the slot to pay for those watches (5 DM, in fact), but I wonder how much that would be in today's exchange rate?  Guess it depends on when the picture was taken. Mercy and grace- no problem- already been paid for!!!